Ken Ham’s Cruel Boasting Over the Loss of Gungor’s Faith

Over the past four months, I have written precisely one blogpost related to Ken Ham, AiG, or young earth creationism. That’s right—only one. The reason why is fairly simple: after 2 ½ years of writing about it, I finally got to the point where there wasn’t much else to say. When it is all said and done, I am convinced that YECism (particularly of the Ken Ham/AiG kind) really isn’t so much about trying to get to the truth of science, or even what the Bible actually says, as it is about fighting their perceived culture war.

Now don’t get me wrong: I certainly do think there is some major cultural tension in our society today—and sure, you can call it a “culture war.” In fact, the state of our current society, quite frankly, rather scares me these days. But that really is a whole other issue. What I came to realize about YECism, though, was that the real concern isn’t so much about proper science or proper biblical exegesis. The real message boils down to this: “The reason why immorality is running rampant in our culture is because people don’t accept Genesis 1-11 as straightforward history and science. If you want to save our culture for Christ, then you need to convince people that dinosaurs and human beings were created on the same day, about 6,000 years ago, on the sixth day of the universe’s existence. If you don’t believe that, then Christ died for nothing.”

Simply put, for YECists like Ken Ham, their ideological agenda drives their science and exegesis.

And so, after 2 ½ years reading up and writing about it, the schtick was just getting old and predictable. I still would check the AiG website or read things others have posted on the creation/evolution Facebook pages I am part of, but by and large, I just needed a bit of a break from pointing out the same, tired talking points.

Another Potshot at Gungor
This morning, though, something from Ken Ham caught my eye on Twitter. He had shared an article entitled, “The Evolving Faith of Lisa Gungor.” She and her husband formed the Christian music group Gungor. Now, ironically, I first came across Gungor three years ago, when I read a post by Ken Ham criticizes Michael Gungor for coming out as a theistic evolutionist. I ended up writing two posts of my own about Ken Ham’s criticism of Gungor: “Hey Kids…Do You Like Gungor?” and “Ken Ham vs. Michael Gungor: Round 2.” In the process, I checked the group out on iTunes and was really quite impressed with their album I am Mountain.

As it turns out, over the past year Michael Gungor has decided he no longer believes in God. The article that Ham shared today was about how Lisa Gungor’s faith has “evolved” during this time as well. Near the end of the article, after saying she doesn’t know what to call herself now, and that she tries to avoid labels, she says, “My perspective is I’m trying to live in the way of love and the way of Jesus the best I know how. I know I don’t have it all right, but I love the way of Jesus. I don’t have a definition for that.”

Now, what Ken Ham wrote in his Tweet was this: Sad consequence of compromising Genesis with evolution (I’ve often said, Theistic Evolution is A step away from Atheistic Evolution); not taught apologetics to answer questions such as why death, suffering, disease; trusting man’s word over God’s Word. Clearly, Ken Ham wants his Twitter followers to know one thing: this is what happens to you if you accept theistic evolution—you end up turning your back on God!

The only thing is that the article doesn’t say that it was evolution that led Michael Gungor to no longer believe in God. In fact, the article is somewhat saddening, in that I think it actually encapsulates what I’ve come to find so disheartening and tragic about the state of Christianity in America today. And that is why I decided to write this post. Simply put, it is a sad article—and therefore Ken Ham’s almost gleeful tweet strikes me as extremely cold and self-righteous. Instead of mourning someone’s loss of faith, Ken Ham has chosen to use it to score points promoting his own agenda.

What the Article Was About
But let’s first get some perspective. The article gave a rough sketch of who Michael and Lisa Gungor are, what led to Michael’s loss of faith as well as Lisa’s own faith struggles, and then how Lisa’s faith has changed in light of all that had happened. The highlights can be summed up as follows:

  • They grew up in a very charismatic Christian church where everything was exciting, but where it wasn’t really encouraged to ask tough questions.
  • After they started dating, and the later when they were married, tension started to build in their faith precisely because they weren’t being allowed to ask the questions they had. In their church, any kind of “doubt” was seen as being in opposition to faith.
  • Eventually, they got kicked out of their church for some of the beliefs they had (the article doesn’t specify).
  • The writer of the article then writes, “It’s not uncommon. Many Christians have dealt with the pain of being rejected on some level by their faith community for asking questions that fell outside whatever lines of inquiry their church found permissible.”
  • Lisa confessed that she had a really hard time reading the Old Testament (presumably because there is a lot of brutality and violence in it, seemingly ordered by God Himself).
  • Michael eventually confessed to her he didn’t believe in God anymore—but he still remained a very moral guy and loving husband.
  • She held onto her faith but struggled with the reality of pain and suffering: a friend of hers battling cancer had seemingly had a miracle of healing…but then it turned out to not be a total miracle of healing—and then Lisa felt guilty for praying for her friend’s healing anyway, in light of the fact that there are so many people in the world who are suffering and who will continue to suffer.
  • Then their second child was born with Down Syndrome—and that’s when Lisa had somewhat of an epiphany: “This little girl is born into a world that our society says is broken and needs to be fixed and at the same time, I’m feeling that within myself. I’m broken, and I need to be fixed because I don’t believe like I used to.”
  • In the end, Lisa doesn’t know what to call herself, but she’s trying to live and love like Jesus, even though she knows she doesn’t have everything figured out.

Let’s Be Honest
Let’s be honest—I’m guessing that for most people, most Christians specifically, there is something in that article that everyone can directly relate to. I know many Christians (and some former Christians) who have admitted how frustrating it was to be afraid to ask their questions and express their doubts, and how when they mustered up the courage to ask a tough question, they were looked down on or their faith was called into question. And the Old Testament? Come on—that’s a toughie! And what about trying to deal with and understand human suffering, especially if you have gone through it yourself?

Let’s be honest, if you’ve grown up in a Christian culture where you are discouraged from asking questions, and where most of the Bible is conveniently ignored (because it’s hard to deal with), and then you happen to go through some very difficult and dark times—is it really all that surprising to find people who end up walking away from the faith?

Now, I guess you can say I’ve been blessed in one regard: I’ve always been so strong-willed, I was never afraid to ask difficult questions, either in my Christian high school, or any place I found myself in. I’ve always had the conviction that if God can’t handle my questions, then He isn’t worthy to be followed anyway. And if someone ever looked down on me for asking the hard questions, my attitude quite frankly was, “Screw that guy. Doubt is the beginning of faith—not it’s antithesis.”

But then again, the past twelve years of my life have been filled with one horrible thing after another: getting betrayed by an administrator at a Christian school where I worked; enduring through my wife’s cancer and cancer treatments while she was pregnant with our child; trying to take care of a baby and giving my wife time to recover from the ordeal; going through a long, drawn-out divorce because through the cancer ordeal my wife basically grew to hate me; getting betrayed by another administrator at another Christian school immediately after the divorce was finalized; and now struggling to get by as an adjunct professor and a single-parent as I raise my son who is developmentally delayed.

Life is hard, and suffering is real, and it takes you to some very dark places. It is a continuous struggle to put your life back together, and you find that you never really fully do. And quite honestly, my own faith has certainly changed, and my own attitude is many ways jaded and in other ways humbled (or perhaps humiliated).

Still, I didn’t chuck my faith. Why? Quite honestly, having studied and taught Biblical Studies for the past twenty years, I’ve wrestled with the difficult questions and I’ve found convincing answers. Simply put, I am intellectually convinced that what the Bible teaches is true. Even in my darkest moments of despair, I felt like Peter’s words were mine, “Where else would I go? You have the words of eternal life” (John 6:68). Then I probably would add, “…damn it.” Even though I often feel like I want to chuck it all, I have to be honest with myself–I really am convinced it is true, frightenly so.

That being said, when someone I know says he doesn’t believe in God anymore, or when I read this article about how Michael Gungor is no longer a Christian, I get it. I can fully understand…and it’s sad—not in a “Oh, it’s sad how that poor schmuck lost his faith, not like me!” kind of way. But rather in a “Yeah, I get it; life is brutal…it’s really easy to go off the edge on the ‘narrow way,’ because not only is it narrow, there are also no guard rails, and I’m hanging on by my fingernails a lot of the time” sort of way.

Conclusion: Some Really Bad Ham
My basic point is this: I do not believe how any Christian who has really struggled in their life could ever show the callousness that Ken Ham chose to show in his tweet about Michael Gungor’s loss of faith and Lisa Gungor’s struggles in her faith. Anyone who has experienced true suffering and has struggled to reconcile their doubts with their faith would never be so petty, pharisaical, and yes dim-witted, to point to someone else’s lose of faith and announce to the world, “Look at that guy! It’s just like I’ve always said! If you don’t believe Adam and Eve had a pet triceratops, or that Behemoth was a sauropod, you’re going to end up denying God! Have fun in hell, jerk!”

There are a host of things wrong with YECism and the things YECists like Ken Ham put out there. But in my opinion, one of the worst things is that such teaching—that particular version of ultra-fundamentalist Christianity—actually contributes to many Christians’ loss of faith by discouraging real questioning, by teaching that doubt is a threat to faith, and by demonizing anyone who dares question them…never mind the pseudo-science and really bad biblical exegesis.

Put that all together, and it’s a recipe for disaster. And whether it is because of the militancy of such ultra-fundamentalism like that of Ken Ham and AiG, or the radical over-reaction in progressive circles to such fundamentalism, the faith of a lot of people is going to continue to be crushed, and that is very sad to see. It certainly should never be a cause for boasting.

16 Comments

  1. Bravo!

    YECism aside, Ken Ham has an unlikeable persona and I’m not surprised he was so oppurtunistically unsympathetic to their loss of faith.

    1. Yes, I’m not surprised AT ALL by this. I’ve read plenty of his stuff for the past three years to know that he has no qualms about condemning anyone who doesn’t agree with his YECist claims.

  2. At times I wonder if people loose faith because they don’t ask hard enough questions. Like any relationship, a relationship with God is strengthen through the depth of hard conversations and intimate questioning. It’s easier to keep things on the surface and only enjoy superficial and emotional experiences. Yet, when the reality of sin and broknenness appear, the experience without the knowledge becomes a weak foundation for holding on to that faith.
    Good thoughts Joel. I appreciate your insights.

    1. I think that often times is certainly the case. Ultimately, each one of us is responsible for our own relationship with God. What I’ve seen is a combination of a lot of things: (A) the church setting doesn’t encourage hard questions, (B) someone is either too afraid or (quite frankly) too lazy to take a chance and ask those hard things, (C) there sometimes is a tragedy or suffering that happens, and if the person isn’t deeply rooted, he/she can’t work through that suffering, and (D) there is this unreasonable expectation that the Christian faith should be easy or simple to understand–and when it isn’t easy, they rationalize things like, “Oh, if there really was a God, he would make it easy and clear to understand–it wouldn’t be so hard.”

      Some of those things deserve understanding and sympathy…that last one though, I’m sorry, I find it really hard to respect people like that.

      1. Regarding D, I would say to that person, if the true worship and faith of the Infinite God of the universe was easy to figure out and never posed any difficulty, why would Jesus say we must love God with all our minds?

        I once heard a quote along the lines of this:

        The Bible is like the ocean: at one end, “shallow” (simple) enough for a child to play in but, at the same time, deep enough for scholars to spend their lives on and never get to the bottom.

  3. Well there you go we really are kindred spirits’ mostly. We even have similar back stories. I just don’t get it. How can a person have a relationship with God and not have a heart overwhelmed with love and compassion for the for the rest of the world.
    I suspect that Ken Hams faith is not really a relationship with God, it is an argument that He must win, the more people He can win to His argument, the more convinced He becomes that He is right and going to Heaven, but no matter how much He ups the ante He can’t get enough support to drown out the undercurrent of doubt. It’s all about Him and He justifies it by saying He is doing it for God. God never asked Him to do it and the devil won’t oppose Him while He’s doing His work for Him, so He gets a free pass and gets to be one of the few “blessed” people who never has to really struggle with horror, brutality and sadness that is common to so many.

  4. I heard an NPR interview with Michael Gungor a few months ago where he talked about his gradual loss of faith. I remember thinking how said it was, and how I wished I could suggest several good books to him which might help to answer some of his doubts.

    Socrates said the unexamined life isn’t worth living, but I’ve said numerous times that the unexamined faith isn’t worth believing (or at least I did until I read the same exact quote in one of Dr. Roger Olson’s books; he probably said it first).

    I grew up in a tradition which boasted that it was totally okay with people asking questions however in reality there were limits to the questions that one could ask and on many of the issues there were stock answers that would be pulled out, many of which never quite satisfied me (and lots of others). We claimed to be “defending the faith” when often what we were really doing was defending our preconceived idea(s) or defending our particular tradition(s). Many of us never learned (until we were much older) how to differentiate between *scripture* and our *interpretation* of scripture.

    A lot (not all) of us had the idea that if you needed apologetics that meant your faith was weak; stuff like God’s existence and the literal resurrection of Jesus you were just supposed to take on faith; if you needed evidence then you needed your faith strengthened.

    Now I tell everyone that God never expected blind faith; God is much more pleased with honest doubt than with a blind faith that has never wrestled with doubt. One serious problem I observe in many communions of churches is an indifference to the rational side of our faith and to apologetics, church history, theology, etc. “Just give me Jesus,” people say. And that sounds great on the surface . . . until you ask, whose Jesus? The Mormons’ Jesus? The Watchtower Jesus? The Jesus Seminar’s Jesus? Arius’ Jesus? The Gnostic Jesus? The Muslim Jesus? The New Age Jesus? Dan Brown’s Jesus?

    We have a man in our church whose mantra is “saved by grace” and doesn’t wanna hear anything else. According to him, who needs theology, apologetics, church history, etc.? He’s not alone as many modern Christians across the spectrum of Christian communions feel the same way. They’ve never seriously considered I Peter 3:15’s admonition to “always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have.” He didn’t tell us to tell people to simply have faith, he told us to provide them with reasonable answers to their questions, to give them an *apologia,* a rational, reasoned argument in defense of our beliefs. We get our word “apologetics” from the word Peter uses here which is translated “give an answer.”

    For me, reason is the cornerstone of faith.

    Pax.

    Lee.

    1. Preach.
      I’ve gotten into arguments with family members over the value of theology, and to all those people who say, “I don’t need any theology, I just love Jesus,” I say,
      How can you love someone you know nothing about?
      Adam Ford (Reformed webcomic artist and the comedic mastermind behind the Babylon Bee) did a comic about this. The gist is, saying you love Jesus when you disregard theology that distills the truths of Scripture about Who He is, is a lot like professing your love to a random man or woman you just saw sitting next to you in a restaurant.
      Saying you love someone you know nothing about makes for an extremely shallow love.
      But next time you get into a discussion with a “no creed but Christ” fundamentalist, ask them what they know about Christ. To literally /anything/ they say, you can reply, “That’s theological.” “Jesus loves me” is theology. “Jesus is my Savior” is theology. “Jesus is the Son of God” is theology. The first two of these are rather shallow theological statements if not thought through and fleshed out in light of Scripture, but the fact remains: any statement someone makes about Jesus that is related to the Christian faith is a theological statement.

      1. Well said. Whether people know it or not, most everything believed about Jesus and the Trinity, salvation, etc., was theology that was hammered out by the early Church. And, as a professor of my once said, you can’t have faith in Christ without faithfulness to Christ.

        And the Babylon Bee is hilarious.

  5. “I am intellectually convinced that what the Bible teaches is true. Even in my darkest moments of despair, I felt like Peter’s words were mine, ‘Where else would I go? You have the words of eternal life’ (John 6:68). Then I probably would add, ‘…damn it.’ Even though I often feel like I want to chuck it all, I have to be honest with myself–I really am convinced it is true, frightenly so.” You have described my journey. Well said.

  6. Doubt is the beginning of faith. Love that. The one fact is that if every church just adopted apologetics right now, this whole “leaving my faith” thing would get completely curbed. So frustrating how C.S. Lewis and so many others just fly over these pastors heads. Not trying to be a jerk here, but it’s a real tragedy that these two people (I don’t even know them) and so many others are losing their faith because the guys who lead the churches discourage rational thinking. It’s a recipe for self-destruction.

  7. “Eventually, they got kicked out of their church for some of the beliefs they had (the article doesn’t specify).”
    Considering your story and the enormous kerfuffle over their statements about Genesis 6-9 not being literal history, I think evolution may have been it. Or at least part of it.

  8. I have to disagree, I do not interpret Ken Ham’s tweet as sinister. Why else would he mention “sad consequence”?

    Having read quite a few articles and interviews with Michael gungor, in his own words, his belief of evolution did not lead him to faith in a Creator but served as a barrier. Ken Ham speaking to the connection to not believing the authority of scripture from the beginning and believing in heresies is what you would do if you care about the health of the church at large. Just like you would warn someone of consequences of smoking or driving while texting.

    1. Well, the reason why it was a barrier to Gungor, as to many Evangelical Christians, is because Evangelical/Fundamentalist leaders like Ham have been telling children for years that evolution = atheism, and that if you don’t believe the earth is 6,000 years old, then you might as well throw out the Christian faith.

      That is simply false. It sets up a dangerously false dichotomy. Both men like Ham and the atheist Richard Dawkins are pushing a utter falsehood that evolution = atheism.

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